AVS Discussions
Projectors => Premium Projectors => Topic started by: AVSMike on November 24, 2016, 09:52:07 PM
-
Here is my guess:
1. RS400/500/600 replacements to have laser, E-shift and low lag. Keeping close to current prices.
2. RSXXXX laser native 4K projector with around 2,000 lumens, priced between RS600 and RS4500.
3. RS4500
Note, to keep a projector in the $4,000 MSRP price point JVC could require the RS400 replacement to be lamp based. JVC could even lower the price and improve the performance slightly, along with adding a low lag mode. Not everybody is going to be able to afford laser and or 4K, so a lamp based entry level E-shift model with improved performance and lower lag would have a lot of appeal, compared to the competition at that price point.
-
I pretty much agree your guesses although I would think it would be hard to keep the RS400 near its current price with laser so maybe it stays lamp - and if so, maybe they drop the MSRP a bit on it to try and gain a larger share of the relatively lower priced projector market.
I could see the potential native 4K lamp based unit around $12995 MSRP. I would expect it to be a bit less than the Sony 675ES (or whatever Sony might replace it with).
-
if it goes to laser same price...Ill be upgrading
-
I think a laser E-shift projector with 1,800 to 2,000 calibrated lumens would sell very well.
-
Here is my guess:
1. RS400/500/600 replacements to have laser, E-shift and low lag. Keeping close to current prices.
2. RSXXXX laser native 4K projector with around 2,000 lumens, priced between RS600 and RS4500.
3. RS4500
Note, to keep a projector in the $4,000 MSRP price point JVC could require the RS400 replacement to be lamp based. JVC could even lower the price and improve the performance slightly, along with adding a low lag mode. Not everybody is going to be able to afford laser and or 4K, so a lamp based entry level E-shift model with improved performance and lower lag would have a lot of appeal, compared to the competition at that price point.
I've been leaning towards waiting a bit longer to upgrade and even though I know this is just a guess I think it's convinced me to hold off upgrading the projector just a while longer.
-
if it goes to laser same price...Ill be upgrading
I think there will be a price increase, if they go to laser. I just hope that it is close to the current prices.
-
I think people in the RS500/600 market would pay a bit extra for the laser increase (say it's up to $300-500 more).
It might make sense for the RS400 to stay lamp the more I think about it.
Aside from total fades to blacks, does the laser affect contrast ratio for better or worse than lamp, or just the same?
-
If lumens remain about the same, then I would think contrast would be about the same. Increasing the lumens and maintaining the contrast is the hard part. :)
-
hours would go way up correct?
-
I think people in the RS500/600 market would pay a bit extra for the laser increase (say it's up to $300-500 more).
It might make sense for the RS400 to stay lamp the more I think about it.
Aside from total fades to blacks, does the laser affect contrast ratio for better or worse than lamp, or just the same?
If a adjustable laser lamp can turn all of.. wont that make the dynamics in low level scenes suffer, i dont see how its possible to maintain any form of calibration if the lamp/ laser power dont remain the same, just like with a auto iris.. Or how is that surposed to work.?
-
I think people in the RS500/600 market would pay a bit extra for the laser increase (say it's up to $300-500 more).
It might make sense for the RS400 to stay lamp the more I think about it.
Aside from total fades to blacks, does the laser affect contrast ratio for better or worse than lamp, or just the same?
I think a lot of folks are waiting to see actual reviews of the new RS4500 ( like from Kris Deering for one ) for the answer to this question. But all things being equal ( like lumens ), I wouldn't think that laser would be worse contrast wise.
-
Given it appears the production quantities of the RS4500 won't be shipping until Jan. 2017 and assuming the rumors are correct that there will be replacements for the current eShift models coming out in the Mar./April time frame, then I would expect all of these models to carry over until 2018. If that guess is correct then what new model(s) might be introduced at CEDIA could be nothing at all or perhaps a lamp-based native 4K model priced above the RS600 (or RS650 if that's the new model replacing the RS600) but well below the RS4500. I would expect such a model to perhaps use the same chassis/case as the eShift models as well as offering similar brightness. Perhaps the same lens as the eShift models as well, or a slightly upgraded version, would be used. I would think that such a new native 4K model would retail in the $15K price range to directly compete with Sony's VW5xx/6xx series of projectors.
-
Given it appears the production quantities of the RS4500 won't be shipping until Jan. 2017 and assuming the rumors are correct that there will be replacements for the current eShift models coming out in the Mar./April time frame, then I would expect all of these models to carry over until 2018. If that guess is correct then what new model(s) might be introduced at CEDIA could be nothing at all or perhaps a lamp-based native 4K model priced above the RS600 (or RS650 if that's the new model replacing the RS600) but well below the RS4500. I would expect such a model to perhaps use the same chassis/case as the eShift models as well as offering similar brightness. Perhaps the same lens as the eShift models as well, or a slightly upgraded version, would be used. I would think that such a new native 4K model would retail in the $15K price range to directly compete with Sony's VW5xx/6xx series of projectors.
That is a logical guess - and we only have 10 months to wait until Cedia 2017 to find out !
-
From what I was told the RS600 replacement will have 2000+ lumens and contrast is upgraded to 160000:1+ native. I have no idea what the light source is however. It was also suggested that these replacement models will be the last eshift models JVC makes.
Personally, I'll most likely skip this new generation if it's just a small bump in brightness and contrast. I don't even think a laser version with eshift will sway me to upgrade my RS500. I get the stability and lengthy time frame of the light source appeal of the laser. I just don't put enough hours on my projectors to warrant that upgrade. The laser does nothing for image quality accept perhaps a larger gamut and faster dynamic iris compared to what JVC is using right now. But still, my RS500 does P3 just fine and it's DI performance is essentially class leading anyways. I think, at the moment, only a native 4K projector from JVC (either lamp or laser) will make me upgrade my RS500. I have a desktop gaming setup that I like so a gaming mode with low lag wouldn't do anything for me. I mean, what else can JVC do to make it's image nicer?
I have a couple small complaints with the current models, but none of the issues alter image quality in any meaningful way. But I'd still like JVC to get rid of lens streaking and internal reflections. I'd also like it so bright corners isn't an issue anymore. My guess is that JVC will rectify that last one seeing how the issue made most major pro-reviews. The first two issues I mentioned would necessitate higher quality optics and coatings to reduce internal reflections. If they accomplish that it would probably mean higher ANSI contrast. If you saw the IFA slideshow for the RS4500, they mention that it's using a new prism that does exactly that; reduces reflections and is more light efficient. They also mention that the new .69" DiLA imagers scatter and diffuse less light. I really hope they're at least using this new prism in the cheaper models to reduce reflections/light scatter and that they continue to refine their 4K imagers to get rid of more and more light scatter.
-
From what I was told the RS600 replacement will have 2000+ lumens and contrast is upgraded to 160000:1+ native. I have no idea what the light source is however. It was also suggested that these replacement models will be the last eshift models JVC makes.
Personally, I'll most likely skip this new generation if it's just a small bump in brightness and contrast. I don't even think a laser version with eshift will sway me to upgrade my RS500. I get the stability and lengthy time frame of the light source appeal of the laser. I just don't put enough hours on my projectors to warrant that upgrade. The laser does nothing for image quality accept perhaps a larger gamut and faster dynamic iris compared to what JVC is using right now. But still, my RS500 does P3 just fine and it's DI performance is essentially class leading anyways. I think, at the moment, only a native 4K projector from JVC (either lamp or laser) will make me upgrade my RS500. I have a desktop gaming setup that I like so a gaming mode with low lag wouldn't do anything for me. I mean, what else can JVC do to make it's image nicer?
I have a couple small complaints with the current models, but none of the issues alter image quality in any meaningful way. But I'd still like JVC to get rid of lens streaking and internal reflections. I'd also like it so bright corners isn't an issue anymore. My guess is that JVC will rectify that last one seeing how the issue made most major pro-reviews. The first two issues I mentioned would necessitate higher quality optics and coatings to reduce internal reflections. If they accomplish that it would probably mean higher ANSI contrast. If you saw the IFA slideshow for the RS4500, they mention that it's using a new prism that does exactly that; reduces reflections and is more light efficient. They also mention that the new .69" DiLA imagers scatter and diffuse less light. I really hope they're at least using this new prism in the cheaper models to reduce reflections/light scatter and that they continue to refine their 4K imagers to get rid of more and more light scatter.
On the RS600 replacement, are you talking about the mild refresh that people have been talking about or what you expect to see at CEDIA 2017?
-
Sounds like the spring refresh on the current units. Not really enough to get me too excited, but any improvement is welcome for future buyers, of course.
-
On the RS600 replacement, are you talking about the mild refresh that people have been talking about or what you expect to see at CEDIA 2017?
It was told to me that this is what's being announced at CEDIA 2017.
-
It was told to me that this is what's being announced at CEDIA 2017.
I will be surprised if that is what happens at CEDIA 2017. Basically then it would mean that JVC would be running a three year cycle with their projectors, because going from 150,000:1 to 160,000:1 is not going to make a difference. While adding lumens is always good, 200 is probably not going to be noticeable.
-
I will be surprised if that is what happens at CEDIA 2017. Basically then it would mean that JVC would be running a three year cycle with their projectors, because going from 150,000:1 to 160,000:1 is not going to make a difference. While adding lumens is always good, 200 is probably not going to be noticeable.
Considering lamps can vary up to 10%, I bet you can find JVC projectors now that are nearly 200 lumens brighter ( and maybe dimmer ) than the current specification anyway !
-
I will be surprised if that is what happens at CEDIA 2017. Basically then it would mean that JVC would be running a three year cycle with their projectors, because going from 150,000:1 to 160,000:1 is not going to make a difference. While adding lumens is always good, 200 is probably not going to be noticeable.
We'll see what happens, either way, I'm probably taking a year off. I'm going to wait until I can get my hands on a native 4K JVC under $10000, whether that be new or used.
-
From what I was told the RS600 replacement will have 2000+ lumens and contrast is upgraded to 160000:1+ native. I have no idea what the light source is however. It was also suggested that these replacement models will be the last eshift models JVC makes.
Personally, I'll most likely skip this new generation if it's just a small bump in brightness and contrast. I don't even think a laser version with eshift will sway me to upgrade my RS500.
IF it's laser and Low Lag, that might be enough to get me to upgrade my RS600. I'm not really all that interested in native 4K, especially if it means a major hit in contrast as it sounds like it might. I've seen a few posts from folks saying they weren't impressed with the RS4500's contrast.
If I have to choose between native 4K and double or triple the contrast, I'll take the contrast.
-
IF it's laser and Low Lag, that might be enough to get me to upgrade my RS600. I'm not really all that interested in native 4K, especially if it means a major hit in contrast as it sounds like it might. I've seen a few posts from folks saying they weren't impressed with the RS4500's contrast.
If I have to choose between native 4K and double or triple the contrast, I'll take the contrast.
It's really hard to judge the contrast on the RS4500 in a hotel room with limited source material. There wasn't anything that would even show a fade to black scene. And even though they had black material around the screen, the room is white. That said, Warcraft in 4K sure looked sharp and clear from an Oppo 203. I'd like to see 4K with my HDR - SDR BT.2020 conversion on it instead of HDR, to really see what's what.
-
Hey Craig,
Did you get any impression from talking to JVC about their plans for the 2018 units?
-
Hey Craig,
Did you get any impression from talking to JVC about their plans for the 2018 units?
I think they have to do something. I am hoping that laser gets added to the RS620 and maybe they bring out a 4K lamp based projector to fill the gap between the RS620 and the RS4500.
-
I think they have to do something. I am hoping that laser gets added to the RS620 and maybe they bring out a 4K lamp based projector to fill the gap between the RS620 and the RS4500.
That is my best guess.
The 4K lamp competes against the Sony 675ES (or replacement). An RS620 laser is maybe the next logical step in its model and competes well against the Epson laser.
-
Hey Craig,
Did you get any impression from talking to JVC about their plans for the 2018 units?
I asked this point blank and they said " I've told the factory that we need something new for Cedia this year ". JVC ( and really all the manufacturers ) play their cards very close to their chests. Don't play poker with them. ;)
-
I asked this point blank and they said " I've told the factory that we need something new for Cedia this year ". JVC ( and really all the manufacturers ) play their cards very close to their chests. Don't play poker with them. ;)
pffft I play the man...not the cards lol
-
pffft I play the man...not the cards lol
" The Man " wasn't going to talk about new projectors they may or might not release 8 months from now, while showing new projectors being released that very day. :-X
-
" The Man " wasn't going to talk about new projectors they may or might not release 8 months from now, while showing new projectors being released that very day. :-X
it was a joke :P
-
I think they have to do something. I am hoping that laser gets added to the RS620 and maybe they bring out a 4K lamp based projector to fill the gap between the RS620 and the RS4500.
I'd be very happy with a Laser RS620. Native 4K really isn't of much interest to me, I don't think I have the seating position, or eyesight (uncorrected is good, but not perfect) and I don't really think the content is there to make native vs e-Shift compelling. But I've heard great things about the stability of the laser light sources (my RS600 flickers a decent bit).
If I could upgrade to something with low lag, instant on/off, game mode, fixed HDR (just in case), and my RS600's six figure native contrast, I'd be pretty happy.
-
I'd be very happy with a Laser RS620. Native 4K really isn't of much interest to me, I don't think I have the seating position, or eyesight (uncorrected is good, but not perfect) and I don't really think the content is there to make native vs e-Shift compelling. But I've heard great things about the stability of the laser light sources (my RS600 flickers a decent bit).
If I could upgrade to something with low lag, instant on/off, game mode, fixed HDR (just in case), and my RS600's six figure native contrast, I'd be pretty happy.
Laser would be great, but for some reason it seems to currently require big and expensive projectors. I have a feeling it will go more like this ( maybe with 4K too ) -
$ 35K projectors ( RS4500 - current )
$ 25K projectors
$ 15K - $18K projectors
$ 10K - $12K projectors
$ 5K - $ 7K projectors
Figure 1 - 2 years for each step ( 4 - 8 years ). At least that seems to be how things have rolled in the past !
-
Laser would be great, but for some reason it seems to currently require big and expensive projectors.
JVC's already got lasers in the current RSx00 chassis right? In the simulation line (VSxxxx)?
-
JVC's already got lasers in the current RSx00 chassis right? In the simulation line (VSxxxx)?
Not sure - post a link if you have one.
-
I'd be very happy with a Laser RS620. Native 4K really isn't of much interest to me, I don't think I have the seating position, or eyesight (uncorrected is good, but not perfect) and I don't really think the content is there to make native vs e-Shift compelling. But I've heard great things about the stability of the laser light sources (my RS600 flickers a decent bit).
If I could upgrade to something with low lag, instant on/off, game mode, fixed HDR (just in case), and my RS600's six figure native contrast, I'd be pretty happy.
I have to admit, I think a laser version of the 620 would sell very well. I am really looking forward to having a laser projector.
-
JVC's already got lasers in the current RSx00 chassis right? In the simulation line (VSxxxx)?
JVC does - http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/category.jsp?productId=PRO6.2
Good contrast. Not as bright as the current lamp based models though.
-
So the question is will JVC be able to make brighter laser projectors in the same size chassis, or is this size projector stuck with 1000 - 1100 lumens ?
-
Laser would be great, but for some reason it seems to currently require big and expensive projectors. I have a feeling it will go more like this ( maybe with 4K too ) -
$ 35K projectors ( RS4500 - current )
$ 25K projectors
$ 15K - $18K projectors
$ 10K - $12K projectors
$ 5K - $ 7K projectors
Figure 1 - 2 years for each step ( 4 - 8 years ). At least that seems to be how things have rolled in the past !
Even the Epson LS10000/10500 is big. I saw it in person and it just dwarfs my RS500. It must have something to do with the laser.
-
So the question is will JVC be able to make brighter laser projectors in the same size chassis, or is this size projector stuck with 1000 - 1100 lumens ?
I think the housing will have to be larger, if you are wanting to nearly double the lumens.
-
Even the Epson LS10000/10500 is big. I saw it in person and it just dwarfs my RS500. It must have something to do with the laser.
Quite a bit bigger than the JVC RS500, but not much heavier.
-
Just 2 months to go, until we know what if anything is new from JVC ! And everybody else for that matter. :)
-
I am guessing that the 520 will become the new entry level model. Maybe a new lamp based 520 replacement. The 620 replacement could be laser or it could be lamp again. If the 620 isn't laser then JVC could have a laser eshift between King Kong and the 620.
Honestly, I don't think there will be a fifth model. Epson has been doing laser for a couple of years, so there is no reason JVC can't have a laser 620.
-
It will be interesting. I honestly have no clue what might be new.
-
I'll be shocked if there isn't an RS520 and/or RS620 eshift replacement without laser around similar pricing as today (or maybe a bit higher). If Optoma is doing laser DLP at $5K I definitely expect JVC to be competitive here. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a native 4K lamp version around $9999 to 12,999 MSRP.
My guess is the RS420 in lamp form remains especially at the value price (under $4000 or thereabouts).