AVS Discussions

Theater design thoughts?

Rick

Theater design thoughts?
« on: November 05, 2016, 10:37:13 AM »
I have a pretty big bonus room that I want to convert to a dedicated theater room, but with some tricky considerations with the stairwell and A/C storage closet access.

This is the room as it stands:

http://content.screencast.com/users/richard.boettger/folders/Jing/media/0d757098-5522-47d8-82a7-d25f2675370f/2016-11-03_2212.png
Theater design thoughts?


Notes:

  • The big black box in the bottom right of the picture denotes the A/C chase:  http://screencast.com/t/ce7NW5cQj
  • The wall between the main room and A/C storage closet (with the door) is load-bearing and cannot be moved.

I've convinced my brother to go halvesies with me on the total cost.  The catch:  I need to have 2 seats as the sweet spots as best I can.  I am sans single seat sweet spot!

I want 2 rows of 4 seats each for when I make 6 friends.  I'm eyeing the Fusion Escape 1019 (Sweet Christmas, power adjustable headrests!), so I've used those to scale in the following pictures.

The orientation suggested to me by others would be to use the 20.5' as the room length, minus a modest baffle wall holding in-wall speakers and a woven AT screen...call it 20'...and build walls on either side in which to box the theater.  11.5' is about as close as I'm comfortable with for the front row, putting the back row at 18'.  This leaves 2' of space between the back row and back wall.

The optimum screen size I came up with was a 130" wide CIW 16:9 ratio (149" diagonal) screen (2.4:1 movies would be 140" diagonal).  This gives a 50 degree viewing angle for the front row and 33 degree viewing angle for the back.  Total screen area = 66sqft.

Final room dimensions:  20' L x ~17.5' W (16' in front, 18' in back) x 9' H

http://content.screencast.com/users/richard.boettger/folders/Jing/media/81250aeb-f121-43d8-b983-dda0fc39dcb1/2016-11-04_1009.png
Theater design thoughts?


Pretty nice layout, but I can't help but feel like I'm not leveraging enough of the entire room.  The lobby area by the stairs just seems like a lot of wasted space.  The slim hallway by the A/C storage closet where the ceiling slopes can house equipment, but is otherwise a bit awkward and also somewhat wasted.  The front row being 11.5' is a bit too close for my tastes, especially with my "2 seat sweet spot" requirement.  The overall dimensions are close to being square, which I've heard can be tough on desired room acoustics.  Lastly, the back row only gets 2' of clearance from the back wall.

I wanted to see if I could crack the design code and come up with an orientation that followed the length of the room:

http://content.screencast.com/users/richard.boettger/folders/Jing/media/45ae93dc-dfa9-4cd8-bd6d-90e35d52708c/2016-11-04_1010.png
Theater design thoughts?


The theater dimensions are now 23.5' L x 16.8' W x 9' H.

Screen's a bit bigger at 135" wide (still CIW which is about 155" diagonal for 16:9 and 146" diagonal for scope). Total screen area is 71sqft.

Front row is 13' from the screen with a 47 degree viewing angle.  Back row is 19.5' with a 32 degree viewing angle.  Back row to back wall is a generous 4'.

Since both rows are farther back, the 2 seat sweet spot is a bit sweeter.  I might even enjoy sitting in different rows, depending on the ratio and content (such as 2D vs. 3D).

What's more, the lobby area is still a nice size without being overwhelming.  The room to the left of the seating is a healthy 15' x 3.5' and could house my movie library, concessions, a wet bar, and/or even a small half bathroom so I don't soil my pants running down the stairs to the toilet (again!).  Who am I kidding?  I won't be wearing pants.  It's my theater; I do what I want.  The A/C storage closet behind the seating could even house equipment (maybe a roll-out rack that can pull into the room and back into the closet as needed).  I also added an insulated "buffer wall" in front of the A/C storage closet to help dampen noise.

I like this layout a good bit, but am totally open to any dream-crushing criticisms as to why it won't work.

For each layout, I've spec'd side-surrounds for each row.  I was going to do the same for height and give each row a set of top-backs for a total of 6 overhead speakers, but I've heard this can muddy the sound.  Anyone tried this?

Also, any other speaker locations I should wire for the future?  Front-wides, perhaps?

Thanks a bunch to anyone with any input!

ellisr63

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2016, 12:21:01 PM »
Your room dimensions are fairly close to mine...what I would do is make it like picture #2, and instead of a wall, I would frame it for a full wall AT screen (with the door on the side to access behind the screen). I prefer a large image and going with a full width screen means you don't have to worry about getting a new screen later if you want to go bigger. Once you have a full width screen wall, you can matt the screen with black acoustically transparent material to the size you like best. We sit 12' from our 15' wide 2.35 AT screen and everyone loves the immersion without any eyestrain. Going this route also allows you to hide your front channels, and also have the same size speakers for all 3 front channels.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 09:16:24 AM by ellisr63 »
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

Rick

Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2016, 03:22:37 PM »
Your room dimensions are fairly close to mine...what I would do is make it like picture #2, and instead of a wall frame it for a full wall AT screen (with the door on the side to access behind the screen). I prefer a large image and going with a full width screen means you don't have to worry about getting a new screen later if you want to go bigger. Once you have a full width screen wall, you can matt the screen with black acoustically transparent material to the size you like best. We sit 12' from our 15' wide 2.35 AT screen and everyone loves the immersion without any eyestrain. Going this route also allows you to hide your front channels, and also have the same size speakers for all 3 front channels.

What screen material do you use?

ellisr63

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2016, 03:33:29 PM »
What screen material do you use?
I purchased SeymourAV XD material. I paid a little extra to get the grommets all installed to make my job easier. I think I ended up with about $1k in it with an extruded Aluminum frame. You  could make the frame out of wood and knock the price down considerably as the frame was close to the price of the screen material.
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

ellisr63

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2016, 09:16:54 AM »
I would make sure you seal all the doors well, so you don't get the sound leaking into the other areas, as it could affect your audio. My thought is that the areas behind the doors would become cavities.

What are you running for room tune software? I am running Dirac, and there is a real nice feature...you can save up to 4 room tunes, and select them remotely. The advantage to this is (IMO) you can do a tune for the front row MLP stereo, 2nd row MLP stereo, 1st row wide, and 2nd row wide, or any other combo you would like to have. This makes it real nice when you want to demo or listen to music in the MLP (no one else listening), and then just select 1st row wide when you are watching a movie with friends.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 09:24:47 AM by ellisr63 »
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

Rick

Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2016, 10:19:55 AM »
Hey @ellisr63,

Do you notice any sparkles, sheen, and/or texture from the XD screen material?  I'm very susceptible to it.

You read my mind on the different Room EQ settings.  Are you using an external Dirac Live box?

I might check out Anthem's latest processor to do exactly as you describe.

ellisr63

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2016, 10:30:04 AM »
Hey @ellisr63,

Do you notice any sparkles, sheen, and/or texture from the XD screen material?  I'm very susceptible to it.

You read my mind on the different Room EQ settings.  Are you using an external Dirac Live box?

I might check out Anthem's latest processor to do exactly as you describe.
I noticed the screen texture, hot spots, and sparlies when I had Draper, and Dalite screens years ago, but I do not notice any problems like that with my new screen from 12'. I can just barely notice a very mild fog, but I also am using a Panasonic AE8000 projector which has a soft focus...so I think it is the projector.

I am using 2 MiniDSP DDRC-88M boxes...one for my bi-amped front 3 channels and subs, and the other for my Atmos, and surround channels. If the Anthem had been out when I got my Yamaha...there is a good chance I would have went Anthem to eliminate the complexity of my setup.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 10:32:08 AM by ellisr63 »
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 04:07:27 AM »
After building only one dedicated theater and now doing a second I have a lot I would and would not do again... part of that is a bigger screen.

I prefer the second drawing by far. Would you be interested in reversing the design though? You can hide all of your L/C/R speakers & front sub(s) behind a larger AT screen and since screens are light weight, you can easily pull it off for access to the HVAC equipment, assuming building/electrical codes are ok with that... A bit of time on the SoundProofing Company's site will help but appropriate sound proofing and screen wall next to the AC chase would work well. The "bottom" closet space would be killer for equipment and the landing near the stairs is a great spot in the back for food/drink and not interrupting the film while coming and going.

The ceiling speakers - 6 might be enough, I'm still learning about ATMOS. With the new "reversal" arrangement, you could get the rear surrounds, any rear height/ATMOS speakers a bit further back for an improved effect though. This is done by sealing the space with a door at the stairs and not building a whole wall at the back. A subwoofer spot could easily be integrated into what ever library/snack storage you design back there.

bmoney

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2016, 07:41:12 AM »
IM a huge proponent of biggest screen you can fit...as you can see in my theater which is literally wall to wall:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bcfineberg/F50DC995-6AF5-4FB7-8A6A-B5274FDE63F6_zpssht57wux.jpg
Theater design thoughts?

ellisr63

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2016, 06:42:15 PM »
IM a huge proponent of biggest screen you can fit...as you can see in my theater which is literally wall to wall:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bcfineberg/F50DC995-6AF5-4FB7-8A6A-B5274FDE63F6_zpssht57wux.jpg
Theater design thoughts?

Same here... I prefer matting down to size if needed versus a smaller screen, especially when you are using AT screens. We love our 15' wide 2.35 screen. :)
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

bmoney

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2016, 05:03:21 AM »
booo...mines "only" 10' wide  :'(

ellisr63

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2016, 08:58:03 AM »
booo...mines "only" 10' wide  :'(
Your room looks like it was built by a Pro though... I would be very proud of your setup if it was mine!
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

bmoney

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Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2016, 08:59:47 AM »
wow thank you!!

and I am very proud make no mistake :)

Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2016, 05:48:59 PM »
What is the angle between the seating and left and right front speakers?  That could be an issue, 
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Rick

Re: Theater design thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 03:24:33 PM »
What is the angle between the seating and left and right front speakers?  That could be an issue,

Hi Shawn,

In my design, it's right around 42-44 degrees.  Are you worried too wide or too narrow?