AVS Discussions

Evolution of CRT

Evolution of CRT
« on: November 03, 2016, 07:29:21 AM »
I remember joining the original AVS forum back in 2000 when CRT was the most active section of the board.  In those days the Chris Stephens modified Marquee was the top CRT projector and when coupled with the Teranex/Faroudja combo it was the prelude to native HD.

Around the time Reference Imaging (Chris Stephens company) went under Mike Parker took over the mantle as the preminent Marquee modder and has continued adapting the platform ever since.  Over the past few years Kurt (Stridsvognen) has stepped into the game and has kept the momentum moving forward.

Kurt's approach is unique in that he's similar to the original field techs from back in the day who would travel with a van full of spare parts.  However, he also modifies and calibrates the projectors.  This holistic method involves traveling with a multitude of spare parts to aid in chasing down and eliminating issues effecting the video chain.  The proliferation of late model government surplus projectors flooding the market and his never ending quest to test and identify the optimal combination of Marquee parts offered across the last 20-years has led to a top performing projector/video chain which is also stable and consistent.

I've had a Marquee for 16-years and can confidently say that this current incarnation provides for the most natural image I've yet witnessed.  It's a huge step forward from what was available just 5-years ago and has breathed new life into the hobby.

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2016, 04:04:41 PM »
Justin, it was a huge pleasure to work on your Marquee in your new home theater room.. If you were a bit closer i would drop in with beer and snack just to watch a movie from time to time.

The 16fl, and 2.600.000.000:1 contrast made Harry potter an unike experience in 1080P 72hz ( 195Mhz pixel clock)
Ill go with that setup any day over any digital low contrast UHD HDR thing in this world today.
The old BLACK IS Back..!!

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2016, 07:55:06 AM »
One of the things that sticks out in my mind is our discussions about UHD technology having a "Wow" factor but not necessarily being more accurate.  There's no question that it's a supreme technological achievement that should command the respect of any videophile but to your point; nobody sees the individual blades of grass when looking at a putting green on a golf course.  Right now the UHD demos we've seen, while insanely sharp, definitely lacked the natural flow which we are seeing on the modded Marquees.  It's the closest thing to 35mm film that I've yet witnessed in a home cinema.

ellisr63

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Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2016, 12:52:50 PM »
What kind of life are you getting out of the CRTs?
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, 2 DTS-10 subs,, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, Yamaha P7000s, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2016, 04:04:06 PM »
It depends on the projector and tube type.. With a Marquee 9500 with LCP tubes its really hard to burn up those tubes.. ill bet they will run 15000hours + if setup right.. I seen 500-3000 hour ones that had no visible sign of wear whatsoever.
But if you go for LUG tubes and a SONY G90 you might be into the tube burning buisness changing tubes every 5000 hours, more or less. all depending how hard you drive it.. From simulator projectors it looks to me like they run 20000-25000 hours on green and blue, and longer on red, using very little of the tube face.

The difference with the CRT is that many of them will just keep on going, while the digital models just drop dead.. Think its hard to find something today that can be expected to last more than 2-7 years, where these machines many are 20 years + old and still running, also its possible and worth repairing them if you have the right ones.

If some would expend the same kind of money on a good 9" CRT projector as they do on some digitals .. like 8-10K$ they would sure get a CRT with instalation setup and calibration.. But CRT is mostly a diy thing these days with very mixed results.
The old BLACK IS Back..!!

ellisr63

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Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2016, 04:11:58 PM »
WOW... I never knew they tubes lasted that long!
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, 2 DTS-10 subs,, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, Yamaha P7000s, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

ellisr63

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Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2016, 04:25:52 PM »
It depends on the projector and tube type.. With a Marquee 9500 with LCP tubes its really hard to burn up those tubes.. ill bet they will run 15000hours + if setup right.. I seen 500-3000 hour ones that had no visible sign of wear whatsoever.
But if you go for LUG tubes and a SONY G90 you might be into the tube burning buisness changing tubes every 5000 hours, more or less. all depending how hard you drive it.. From simulator projectors it looks to me like they run 20000-25000 hours on green and blue, and longer on red, using very little of the tube face.

The difference with the CRT is that many of them will just keep on going, while the digital models just drop dead.. Think its hard to find something today that can be expected to last more than 2-7 years, where these machines many are 20 years + old and still running, also its possible and worth repairing them if you have the right ones.

If some would expend the same kind of money on a good 9" CRT projector as they do on some digitals .. like 8-10K$ they would sure get a CRT with installation setup and calibration.. But CRT is mostly a diy thing these days with very mixed results.
I just did a search, and these are very reasonably priced used. How expensive are the tubes if they need to be replaced? Do they have tubes available that can get the lumens up higher for a 15' wide scope screen by chance?
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, 2 DTS-10 subs,, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, Yamaha P7000s, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2016, 05:10:05 PM »
The projectors are not expensive, but the experience to setup and tweak it is..

To light up a 15 fot wide screen you would need a blend, and then it starts to cost , 2 projectors with matched tubes and electronics.. Blend unit is 6000-50.000$ depending how good you would want it, setup is like 8 times or more timeconsuming.. So its really not the way to go unless your loadet, and can aford it.. At that point its "the" shit..

For a good 9" CRT ill recommend a 6,5-8fot wide screen, a 100" 16:9 screen would be the optimum solution in my mind.

If you have 80K$, the roome and screen ill be happy to do you a 15 food wide scope blend all inclusive. ;)

Tubes are plenty, you can even buy new LUG tubes around 1200$ pr tube.. NOS ones cheaper, but you need a eye open.. there is lots.. so its just to get them when they are for sale.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 05:36:54 PM by stridsvognen »
The old BLACK IS Back..!!

ellisr63

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Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2016, 08:41:36 AM »
Thanks for the info. I guess until I win the Lotto... I will not be trying out CRTs again.
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) diy synergy horn 2 ways,, 4 JBL 8340As, 4 JBL 8320s, PS3, XBoxOne, Monoprice speaker wire, and XLR cables, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster HTPS7000, 2 Furman filters, 2 DTS-10 subs,, SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope screen, Panamorph UH-480, Darbee Darcet, Yamaha P7000s, diy 14 channel Ice Power amp

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 11:44:30 AM »
JB now that your crt is dialed in what is up next on your wish list for the Marquee?
Lord Voldermort 9518LC Mooded 200lbs of awsomnes

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2016, 06:04:59 AM »
For the first time ever I'm pretty content.  The image is so dynamic; it's hard to imagine 1080p being resolved any better than it is.  I'm sure there's always some little tweaks to play with but I don't think it's anything that will make a truly material difference to the image quality.

Right now I'm focusing on the finishing work in the theater (millwork, AT panels, audio calibration, new seating) so that's going to tie me up until next Summer.  Every time I sit down to watch something I feel like I need to name my next child Kurt ;D

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2016, 11:10:43 AM »
For the first time ever I'm pretty content.  The image is so dynamic; it's hard to imagine 1080p being resolved any better than it is.  I'm sure there's always some little tweaks to play with but I don't think it's anything that will make a truly material difference to the image quality.

Right now I'm focusing on the finishing work in the theater (millwork, AT panels, audio calibration, new seating) so that's going to tie me up until next Summer.  Every time I sit down to watch something I feel like I need to name my next child Kurt ;D

Then ill have to recommend you not getting more children.. ;)
The old BLACK IS Back..!!

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2016, 06:15:32 PM »
I agree there is nothing left on my wish list I cannot imagine a 1080p being resolved any better than what we have now but never say never. My convergence has not moved since Kurt left my house even with 2 projectors and 10 tubes and magnetics sitting under my projector. That amazes me to say the least. Since I am dialed in I am going to black velvet the entire theater this winter. Walls and ceiling and eliminate all reflections. A true bat cave. Here is what I gave now.c curtains will be gone and ceiling will have panels made.http://i.imgur.com/0AqBka0.jpg
Evolution of CRT
http://i.imgur.com/aes3dIc.jpg
Evolution of CRT
Then some black furniture.
Lord Voldermort 9518LC Mooded 200lbs of awsomnes

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 08:25:01 PM »
Left over black cloth huge improvement over flat black ceiling paint. Just by adding this picture jumps out of screen will be buying the triple black velvet this week.
http://i.imgur.com/aes3dIc.jpg
Evolution of CRT
Lord Voldermort 9518LC Mooded 200lbs of awsomnes

Re: Evolution of CRT
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2016, 03:20:50 AM »
Be carefull you dont get lost down there, even with the light on..
The old BLACK IS Back..!!