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New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector

New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« on: January 08, 2017, 10:19:05 PM »
Wondering what this thing will be like?

Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 06:15:48 AM »
Wondering what this thing will be like?

From what I have been reading, it is expected to have pretty low native contrast. Talking business class level contrast. :(
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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 09:57:27 AM »
Also, apparently HDR but no WCG, according to one article I found.

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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 10:10:35 AM »
From what I have been reading, it is expected to have pretty low native contrast. Talking business class level contrast. :(

That seems to be par for the course for Optima. Maybe they should change their name to " Opti-meh ".  ;D
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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 09:41:58 AM »
That's unfortunate......such promising news with pricing and native 4k, but sounds like the other attributes will drag it down...

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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 10:12:11 AM »
That's unfortunate......such promising news with pricing and native 4k, but sounds like the other attributes will drag it down...

Is it native 4K? I thought it was " wobulated ".
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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 01:02:18 PM »
It uses the Texas Instruments 4K chip that was introduced earlier. 

http://hometheaterreview.com/optoma-unveils-2799-4k-dlp-projector/

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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 01:08:05 PM »
It uses the Texas Instruments 4K chip that was introduced earlier. 

http://hometheaterreview.com/optoma-unveils-2799-4k-dlp-projector/

That's not a true native 4K chip. It's " eshifted " -

" The DLP 4K UHD solution uses the fast speed of the chip with advanced image processing to deliver more than 8 million pixels to the screen with just 4 million mirrors. Each mirror is capable of switching over 9,000 times per second, creating two distinct and unique pixels on the screen during every frame to deliver full 4K UHD resolution. "

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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 01:19:00 PM »
Gotcha. Whereas The JVC and Epson "shifting" delivers about half the pixels, correct?

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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 01:22:06 PM »
Gotcha. Whereas The JVC and Epson "shifting" delivers about half the pixels, correct?

True. And 25 - 50 times the contrast. Nobody mentions a difference in resolution in my theater ( Sony VW600 vs JVC RS600 ). They notice black levels or how bright the picture is. And they notice 100% fade to black scenes on the JVC when they are trying to pour a glass of wine............. :o
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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 01:27:49 PM »
I like it!

Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 02:09:54 PM »
By the way, this I just saw from Evan Powell....

"...
The 4K DLP chip starts with double the number of mirrors as a standard 1080p imaging device. But each mirror is capable of defining two separate and distinct pixels on the screen in alternating scans--the pixels do not overlap as they do on 3LCD pixel-shift machines. Again this happens so fast that it is not perceptible to the eye. So it is misleading to say that the 4K DLP chip has half the number of "pixels" as a native 4K chip -- it is technically correct to say that it has half the number of mirrors. With this technology there is no image processing required to blend the first and second scan. Projectors that use this chip are fully able to address all pixels in the 4K signal and put them on the screen. So we have no problem categorizing this chip as genuinely native 4K based on the fact that the image that it produces consists of the full resolution of the 4K signal...."

I just thought this was interesting.  Now, am I arguing that it's even in the same ballpark for overall PQ as the others we've mentioned...not at all.  Just interesting...

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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 03:26:36 PM »
If only they could up the contrast from 2006 levels !
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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 09:49:16 AM »
By the way, this I just saw from Evan Powell....

"...
The 4K DLP chip starts with double the number of mirrors as a standard 1080p imaging device. But each mirror is capable of defining two separate and distinct pixels on the screen in alternating scans--the pixels do not overlap as they do on 3LCD pixel-shift machines. Again this happens so fast that it is not perceptible to the eye. So it is misleading to say that the 4K DLP chip has half the number of "pixels" as a native 4K chip -- it is technically correct to say that it has half the number of mirrors. With this technology there is no image processing required to blend the first and second scan. Projectors that use this chip are fully able to address all pixels in the 4K signal and put them on the screen. So we have no problem categorizing this chip as genuinely native 4K based on the fact that the image that it produces consists of the full resolution of the 4K signal...."

I just thought this was interesting.  Now, am I arguing that it's even in the same ballpark for overall PQ as the others we've mentioned...not at all.  Just interesting...

I want some screenshots/explanation of how "the pixels do not overlap", it just doesn't pass the smell test.  If the fill factor is >50%, then the only way for pixels to not overlap is for them to be shifted one entire chip width or height away, but that's "not possible".  On top of that it doesn't jive with any of the official information we've seen from the likes of Barco.  Or the screenshots we've seen taken from these machines with 4k test patterns.

It really seems to me like TI (marketing) is doing it's best to obscure the issue that these new shifted DMDs work with overlapping pixels, just like JVC and Epson.  They're sticking to their 4Mpix DMD, which flashes twice for each frame (4Mpix * 2 = 8Mpix), but gloss over that those two fields overlap and thus are not equivalent of a native 4K imaging device.

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Re: New Sub $3000 Optoma 4K UHD Native Projector
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2017, 10:08:14 AM »
I want some screenshots/explanation of how "the pixels do not overlap", it just doesn't pass the smell test.  If the fill factor is >50%, then the only way for pixels to not overlap is for them to be shifted one entire chip width or height away, but that's "not possible".  On top of that it doesn't jive with any of the official information we've seen from the likes of Barco.  Or the screenshots we've seen taken from these machines with 4k test patterns.

It really seems to me like TI (marketing) is doing it's best to obscure the issue that these new shifted DMDs work with overlapping pixels, just like JVC and Epson.  They're sticking to their 4Mpix DMD, which flashes twice for each frame (4Mpix * 2 = 8Mpix), but gloss over that those two fields overlap and thus are not equivalent of a native 4K imaging device.

If they were just as good as native 4K chips, Digital Projection could save a lot of money and use these rather than native 4K DMD's !  ;D  I'm sure they produce a nice ( other than contrast ) picture for the money.
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